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Post by parsifal on Aug 5, 2016 14:57:33 GMT
Hi, all. I'm wondering what thoughts you might have on whether the concept of the demiurge has any place in the Typhonian Tradition. Yaldabaoth, the malevolent lion-faced pretender god, seems to have featured large in the cosmologies of some gnostic sects. Yet if we accept that Liber AL is a transmission from transplutonic Nu-Isis—the source and power zone of our Tradition—then it seems (to me, anyway) that Manichaean dualism is incompatible with the Typhonian current, because Nuit says "I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union." That is, the material world, with all of its dualities and contradictions, is basically part of the grand plan, so to speak, not the flawed creation of an ego-mad demiurgic false god. Thoughts?
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Post by stephen on Aug 26, 2016 13:47:20 GMT
Well, Parsifal, I thought that a good place to start would be to do a trawl through the Typhonian Trilogies: Kenneth Grant makes scattered references to the Gnostics, but I could not recall any specific mention of the Demiurge. I was right: no inclusions in any of the indexes and no mentions in references to Gnostic related topics, until finally I came across 'Ialdabaoth' in the index to The Ninth Arch. Here in the commentary to OKBISh verse 710, we find:
710-18. Let it not be wrong again! “The wrong of the Beginning” is a phrase encountered in Liber VII, one of the ‘Holy Books’ of Thelema. According to certain early schools of the Gnosis, the original scheme of creation was aborted; and the failure of the Experiment in Mutation essayed by the minions of the Old Ones produced the demon, Ialdabaoth, The Devil – in terms of psychology, the Ego. The exhortation to the New Gnostics is to dissolve this error, the “wrong of the Beginning”. The verse number = ChI, ‘True Being’ (i.e., Self) as Ego. 18 = 3 x 6, three sixes, 666. The verse thus reveals the true nature of the secret key of Isis – the Lost Word or Phallus ... The Phallus of Osiris (Sirius) is the Sun behind the sun, which the beetle with its mandibles propels across the Desert of Set. The ‘human’ experiment went wrong from the beginning, because man became subject to the domination of the terrestrial sun and rejected the True Star, the Stellar Gnosis. Yet Sirius itself was but a veil of Nu Isis...
pp. 437-438, The Ninth Arch.
As with many passages in TNA this is a rather concentrated synthesis of themes covered elsewhere in the Trilogies. Grant discusses "the wrong of the Beginning" in chapter 6 of Nightside of Eden, for example, and the identification of The Devil with the Ego is a theme in the book. The passage is of considerable interest, not least because he identifies us as Thelemites and Typhonians, as being "the New Gnostics".
Much to discuss and consider here: for one thing the Demiurge was not originally considered to be " a malevolent...pretender god", but became so in the mystical world view of many Gnostic sects, although their attitudes to him varied. Moreover, I was intrigued by my discovery, two or three years ago that the value of Greek Ialdabaoth = 858, which is the value also, of Dagon, in Greek - the letter 'o' being an Omega in both cases (won't attempt to use a Greek font here as I'm sure it would only cause complications). So there you are; of interest to those with an appreciation of gematria/isosophy, perhaps.
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Post by parsifal on Oct 2, 2016 18:21:58 GMT
Stephen: Thanks very much for your reply. I've been mulling this concept of "the Wrong of the Beginning" = Devil = ego, and how the task of the New Gnostics is to "dissolve this error." This line interests me as well: "The ‘human’ experiment went wrong from the beginning, because man became subject to the domination of the terrestrial sun and rejected the True Star, the Stellar Gnosis. Yet Sirius itself was but a veil of Nu Isis."
Nu Isis, the "True Star," is the trasplutonic power zone from which the influence from Outside emanates; to say that we have rejected Her fallen under the domination of the terrestrial sun, in mind, it to say that we are mired in materiality and hence asleep to the reality of our true nature, our "stellar birthright," if you will.
So today I came across an interesting passage in the Voudon Gnostic Workbook that seems to touch on some of these ideas, and seems, in fact, to be making a thinly veiled reference to the demiurge concept. I found the passage at the end of the book among instructions for the Choronzon Club, where Bertiaux is discussing how numbers are agencies of evil, because we create our world around us (that materiality we're mired in that I mention above here) with numbers. He writes: "Everything is assigned its proper number and this means that numbers cover all manifested being, in one way or another. People speak of the power of these numbers, for by means of their usefulness in the materialistic computer realm, it is possible to accomplish everything."
But it was the following text where Bertiaux seems to make a thinly veiled reference to the demiurge:
"The hierarchy of numbers has been invested with a certain magical type of personality, so that the number 1 represents the primary ally of the cosmic forces of evil beyond this sphere, perhaps.
"It is the region or zone of the archdaemon, who is perhaps assisted by his father or his mother from beyond this realm of being, as they seek to give him more and more powers due to the increased computerization of the whole earth." (VGN, pg. 611)
One of the things I like about Bertiaux that he's sort of Dadaist or surrealist in its approach to occult writing: he is famously outré, and not bound by past forms of expression, by dry orthodoxy. His writings, like Grant's, can themselves induce a kind of altered "magical" state of mind if you allow them to! Anyway, I thought this passage struck at some of the ideas discussed above about the demiurge.
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Post by stephen on Oct 14, 2016 14:15:47 GMT
Took out my copy of 'The Voudon Gnostic Workbook' the other evening; it has been a while since it saw the light of day and Bertiaux's somewhat impenetrable style took a bit of getting into, once again.
That sentence about the "archdaemon" (VGN p.611) is very suggestive, Parsifal, I will agree, but I am not certain whether it is intended to refer to the Demiurge.
In his presentation of the "Numbers of Evil", Bertiaux states: "..in gnostic metaphysics - and we are gnostics in the Choronzon Club - one of the most important ideas is that there exists a hierarchy of evil, which exerts its positive influence in the world of human experience." (VGN p.610) He then makes the assertion that hierarchy of evil = hierarchy of numbers. He mentions Pythagoras here as well, as he is the source of the doctrine of 'good' and 'evil' numbers.
To bring this into the realm of Typhonian interpretation, I would suggest consulting 'Hecate's Fountain' pp.197-200 (Skoob edn. its in the "Kalas of Chaos 1" Chpt. I believe), where Grant cites Bertiaux on this matter of numbers and relates them to Set-Typhon.
In the paper "The Mystical Theogony of the Zothyrian Gnosis" (VGN pp.511-519), there is considerable reference to Ialdabaoth, described as the "Aeon of the negative Old Testament energies" who is in open rebellion against the Gnostic Sun. This whole section makes fascinating reading in its formulation of a new variation on the essential Gnostic Doctrine. And yes, there is a temptation to consider whether that 'Gnostic Sun' could be interpreted as a reference to Sirius, although I am inclined to think that this is not Bertiaux's intention. But, he does not refer to Ialdabaoth as being the Demiurge.
Rather, on VGN page 531, we find: "I therefore came to the inner realization that in the use of vudotronics, the avatar of Grand Legbha became a kind of Demiurgos or (of?) gnostic physics, a creative god, assisting in the manifestation of the true possible forms of being." And on the following page there is further mention of the creative role of the demiurge in the practise of Vudotronics. So here we have an example of the concept of the Demiurge having a positive role in magical practice.
Finally, on this subject of numbers, there is that essential, yet enigmatic information emanating from Plutarch, quoting Pythagoras and Eudoxus stating that Set-Typhon was a demonic power produced "in an even proportion of numbers of 56", which is mentioned by Grant in 'Nightside of Eden' (p.101, Muller this time, but check the Starfire index for Plutarch and Pythagoras). He does not quote the complete passage from Plutarch which is well worth searching out for contemplation.
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Post by parsifal on Oct 15, 2016 21:38:38 GMT
Thanks for your reply, Stephen, as always. And as always, you go deeper into the texts I ever push myself to go! There is much here to contemplate and cross reference, so thanks again, especially for the inspiration. Your use of the sources reminds me--of all people!--of Gregory the Great and a (famous?) quote of his from his Moralia on Job, where he says scripture is like a river, shallow enough for lambs to wade, deep enough for elephants to swim. The same could be said of the Typhonian textual sources. You, my friend, are one of the elephants! All the best, P.
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Post by stephen on Oct 17, 2016 10:53:56 GMT
Well, Parsifal, it is the first time that I've been likened to both a famous Pope and an Elephant at one and the same time. Something of a surprise, but I will take it as a compliment.
Yes, I believe that there are interesting threads to follow up here and hope to give them further attention soon. Glad to contribute.
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Post by parsifal on Oct 17, 2016 13:02:43 GMT
Stephen: My comments were definitely intended as a compliment! I'm thankful for your insights. Much food for thought here.
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