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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 18:32:22 GMT
What were the precursors of New Isis Lodge. I have heard that Grant created various groups along the way? Is this true?
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Post by Michael Staley on Jul 13, 2013 19:01:51 GMT
We do know that there were several such groups. For instance, in the late 1940s, Grant created a group called IBA. Again, we know from letters written by Germer to Ithell Colquhoun that a group is the early 1950s broke up. New Isis Lodge developed from the experience of running several such groups.
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Post by Edward Gauntlett on Jul 20, 2013 11:19:21 GMT
Ithell Colquhoun says that after World War II she joined a branch of the O.T.O. run by a "young couple", the end of which came "sudden and soon" and that she heard three contradictory accounts for why it folded. In the notice following her death in 1988 Grant states that she had once been a member of New Isis Lodge. This seems to suggest that Colquhoun had a creative view of events but also that Grant had already taken on the idea of establishing fairly loose and impermanent groups coalescing for particular work around a Thelemic nucleus. Any or all such groups may have come loosely under the O.T.O. umbrella but maybe had other, more specific, working titles.
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Post by Gregory Peters on Jul 31, 2013 3:35:52 GMT
Michael, was IBA an acronym for anything? Or was it used just as "IBA" ?
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Post by Henrik on Aug 1, 2013 9:00:06 GMT
I seem to recall that the letters IBA stands for 'He shall come', in Hebrew.
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Post by stephen on Aug 19, 2013 15:35:12 GMT
As Henrik correctly states, IBA, or to be precise, yod-bayth-aleph, means "he shall come" in Hebrew. Kenneth Grant notes this on page 229 of Outer Gateways in his preliminary commentary to the Wisdom of S'lba. The final verse of that text states simply: IBA ! This is the source of the word; at what particular point in time KG realised that it had a Hebrew meaning is uncertain. It is also an acronym for Ilyarun-Bel-Aossic. Plate 1 in Hecate's Fountain is artwork by Steffi Grant and is entitled "He Shall Come"; it is the "Cover of a Manifesto circulated in New Isis Lodge" and the word IBA features prominently. I am not certain whether this is to be equated with The Manifesto of New Isis Lodge published in 1955. As Hebrew, IBA is derived from the root BVA, 'to come', but it has the primary meaning of 'to come in, to enter' and gives rise to the word MBVA, 'opening, entrance' with a gematria of 49, which has significance in regard to the commentary in OG mentioned above.
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Post by Michael Staley on Aug 24, 2013 11:28:31 GMT
Plate 1 in Hecate's Fountain is artwork by Steffi Grant and is entitled "He Shall Come"; it is the "Cover of a Manifesto circulated in New Isis Lodge" and the word IBA features prominently. I am not certain whether this is to be equated with The Manifesto of New Isis Lodge published in 1955. No, it is not the same Manifesto. Grant is here using "New Isis Lodge" loosely here, since it was the name that he eventually gave to a working group which developed through several forms from the late 1940s onwards. IBA was the name he have to an early form of the group - perhaps the first - in the late 1940s. I've not yet come across a copy of this Manifesto.
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Post by Gregory Peters on Aug 24, 2013 23:53:31 GMT
Interesting. I wonder if the "He" that shall come referred in some way to LAM
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Post by stephen on Aug 29, 2013 14:59:52 GMT
Michael, Thanks for that information on the Manifesto.
Gregory, I believe that the "He" relates specifically to Aossic.
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Post by Michael Staley on Aug 29, 2013 16:25:59 GMT
Interesting. I wonder if the "He" that shall come referred in some way to LAM I don't think that it does. I once asked Kenneth if New Isis Lodge did much work with Lam, and he replied that no, they didn't. It's my belief that at that early stage, although he found the drawing a dramatic, enigmatic and fascinating one (don't we all?), its deeper implicits hadn't been realised; indeed, there are not that many references to Lam in the volumes of the Typhonian Trilogies up to and including Nightside of Eden.
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Post by squareye on Sept 24, 2013 11:53:14 GMT
Ed,
I remember coming across Ithell Colquhoun's account of her membership of that strand of OTO when reasearching an article on her work and life. It confused me too although she joined and attempted to join many groups in her lifetime which is confusing enough! As well as KG's branch didn't Germer set up or authorise another UK branch of OTO after he expelled KG and might Ithell have joined this one too? I can't quite remember whereabouts I came across this Germer related OTO recension??
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Post by Michael Staley on Sept 24, 2013 19:58:18 GMT
After Grant's expulsion, Germer authorised someone in the UK to be his representative, perhaos George Brook. So far as I know nothing came out of it. I've not hear of a Lodge being founded, or any group work arising from it. At Germer's death, the only active Crowleyan O.T.O. Lodge was that of the Swiss.
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Post by mjwayland on Oct 4, 2013 19:09:16 GMT
I wish that I had kept my Ithell letters to Germer. Germer makes several references to Motta's O.T.O. and also several active members in the UK. This was early 1950s and she was looking to join the O.T.O or the AA, she was confused about the differences.
Will see if I still have scans somewhere..
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Post by Michael Staley on Oct 4, 2013 19:20:22 GMT
I wish that I had kept my Ithell letters to Germer. Germer makes several references to Motta's O.T.O. and also several active members in the UK. This was early 1950s and she was looking to join the O.T.O or the AA, she was confused about the differences. Will see if I still have scans somewhere.. That would be extremely interesting to see. I used to have a set of letters from Germer to Colquhoun, and it would be interesting to put the two sets of letters together.
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Post by azrael2393 on Oct 5, 2013 5:31:51 GMT
Are there any other survivors of Nu-Isis Lodge, still around and still working? I understand this might me asking for too much, so apologies if I'm stepping on some feet.
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Post by Michael Staley on Oct 5, 2013 9:15:17 GMT
No, you're not stepping on any feet. There aren't any surviving members of the Lodge that I'm aware of, apart from Steffi Grant, and I think that her role was limited.
One day in the late 1980s, whilst I was preparing the third issue of Starfire for publication, Kenneth remarked to me that a member of New Isis Lodge had died, and would I mind including a brief In Memoriam piece in the issue. I agreed, and he handed me his draft. The member who had died was Ithel Colquhoun. I remarked to Kenneth: "How many more members of New Isis Lodge will I only get to know about when you hand me an obituary?". He simply smiled, and said nothing.
I knew Kenneth since the late 1970s, when I entered what was then the Typhonian O.T.O. He was a secretive man, and though I became a trusted confidante, he would still have told me little more than what he considered I needed to know about New Isis Lodge.
Some people have taken this lack of information, coupled with some of the more colourful anecdotes in Hecate's Fountain, to suggest that the Lodge didn't exist. From my conversations with Kenneth over the years, I have no doubt that it did exist and rituals were worked.
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Post by azrael2393 on Oct 5, 2013 12:12:41 GMT
thanks Michael. I wonder if the Lodge itself can still be accessed on a different plane... it definitely has a strong "existance of its own" in the mind of all of us who are somewhat in tune with the Typhonian current.
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Post by Marc on Nov 2, 2013 20:37:42 GMT
Would the original Lodge's current perhaps have trickled down into the Typhonian Order today? Or as azrael2393 mentioned above, is the Lodge's current still able to be manifest in the collective workings of all of the Typhonians in the present day? I'm assuming the egregore can still be tapped into.
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Post by Vadge Moore on Nov 2, 2013 21:32:27 GMT
It seems to me that this current is tapped into whenever you pick up and read one of Kenneth's books. I certainly have the impression...after devouring a couple of these books in a row ...that I am flowing with, riding on this current. And, as we know, this current didn't originate from the Nu Isis Lodge...the Nu Isis Lodge was one of the "receiving stations" as it were.
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Post by Marc on Nov 2, 2013 21:45:03 GMT
I agree Vadge, when I began reading Grant's works, I read 3-4 books in a row, I couldn't get enough and it propelled me into a perceptual world of extraterrestrialism, Thelemic elaborations, and connections with a half dozen other things....all at once. Come to think of it, the books do change you. They change the way you perceive the world don't they? I found it almost addictive.
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Post by Vadge Moore on Nov 2, 2013 21:55:44 GMT
Best drug in the world!
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Post by Marc on Nov 2, 2013 22:00:11 GMT
Ditto. On the quick topic of drugs, check out the back and forth on Nalyd's unique method of Holotropic Breathing coupled with the Death Posture. It's on the techniques thread.
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Post by Vadge Moore on Nov 2, 2013 22:04:53 GMT
I saw that. Very interesting.
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Post by R.A.Plimer on Oct 16, 2015 8:12:04 GMT
I agree with the last comments made by Marc and Vadge, in that reading Grant’s works allows the current to penetrate one’s own psyche…at present I am reading the typhonian novellas, and these carry a very pointed message in that the current is active and very much alive.
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Post by Gregory Peters on Oct 17, 2015 1:29:01 GMT
the current is truly "outside the circles of time"
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